Interarchy访谈:Peter N Lewis和Matthew Drayton

历史上最受欢迎的独立Mac应用程序之一并非每天都在转手,但这就是今天发生的事情,当时马修德雷顿和他的新公司,Nolobe,从Peter N Lewis获得了Interarchy的权利楼梯软件

两年前我打过电话Interarchy 7是我最喜欢的年度应用之一; the当前版本(8.5,今天早些时候发布)仍然是我选择的文件传输应用程序当时的第一版的无政府主义者1993年发布,大多数商业Mac软件仍然通过零售渠道以盒装形式出售Peter是独立Mac开发人员现代网络业务和分销模式的先驱(包括帮助创建卡吉,流行的软件支付处理器)。

格鲁伯:作为公关宣布这笔交易说, this more or less amounts to an employee buyout of the productI take it we can presume this is an amicable agreement?

刘易斯:The agreement is entirely amicable, we see it as a great way to ensure Interarchy’s future.


刘易斯:I started writing Anarchie in 1993 as an archie client (archie was a very primitive search engine for finding files available on public FTP archives) coupled together with an FTP file downloading engine to allow the user to perform a search and then directly download the file.

At the time I was working full time for supporting a small University department with 20 Macs, and writing Mac Internet applications after hours (I even had to pay them for the computer usage!).


刘易斯:I’ve enjoyed working on Interarchy, but I have been doing it for a dozen years now, and it is time to try something elseThe problem with having a successful program like Interarchy is it essentially stops you from working on anything else that doesn’t succeed as well as it does.

Matthew has been an excellent employee, and I have had a great time working with him, but this gives him a chance to go out on his own, which is something he would have needed to do sooner or later anyway.

As for what that next thing might be, I have no specific plans at the momentOur third child is due any day now, so that will keep me busy for a while and then I’ll see what I might like to do next也许修改键盘大师or a Mac OS X version ofGreebles,或者可能是完全不同的东西。

格鲁伯:很高兴知道Stairways Software将继续。

A decade ago, you really had a slew of small utilities under active developmentMost of the individual networking utilities were folded together under the Interarchy umbrella, but things like Obi Wan simply faded away.

I’m not asking you for specific ideas on what you might do, but do you have a general sense of whether it’d be one big new thing, or a handful of smaller projects?

刘易斯:Actually, I still use ObiWan (now called Wanobi) and ThufirCalc, but many of our early programs served to bring Unix Internet facilities to the Mac, but many of those facilities have since faded away and our programs with them.

Currently I doubt I’ll write a new big program, at least not in the short termI’d like to write a game, but they generally take a large group of people these daysI might build a few web sites to try something a bit different.


德雷顿:I started working for Stairways at the beginning of 2001; 19th of March to be preciseI’d just finished my Computer Science degree and desperately wanted to write Mac softwareStairways was the only Australian company I knew of that developed Mac software so I sent them an email几天后我找到了一份工作。


德雷顿:我已经征募了我哥哥大卫的帮助We have wanted to work together for a long time and now we have the opportunity to do so.

大卫目前的情况与我的情况在2001年没有什么不同He has just finished a Computer Science degree and wants to write Mac software.

格鲁伯:在结构上,Interarchy非常独特My understanding is that it’s still written mostly (or completely) in PascalIs that right?


格鲁伯:There certainly aren’t many modern Mac apps left that are written primarily in PascalFor one thing, support for Pascal isn’t provided by default in XcodeHow much work is it just to maintain a working tool chain?

刘易斯:实际上并不太糟糕There are a group of us who maintain the Pascal “Universal Interfaces” which are just translations from the C headersThere are GNU Pascal people who work at maintaining GNU Pascal, so we don’t have to worry about that, although early on we worked with them to minimize the inter-operability problems when converting from CodeWarrior Pascal.

现在它已经全部设置好了,效果非常好We work in BBEdit and hit a key to cause a make or compile, which builds the program, potentially including all the documentation, widgets, actions, command line tools, disk images, etcBBEdit支持CTAGS, so there is good syntax coloring and quick navigationIt also supports subversion, so we can use all of those facilities. Debugging is a bit limited, but we use lots of assertions which detect most errors at their source, cutting down debugging time enormously.

格鲁伯:I can see two sides to taking over the reins of an app as long-standing and popular as InterarchyOn the one hand, it gives you the opportunity to start your own company with an enormous existing customer base.

But on the other hand, existing customers have, shall we say, strong feelings about how Interarchy should look and workHow much do you feel bound to Interarchy’s tradition?

德雷顿:I have been working on Interarchy for a long time; nearly six yearsI like to think that I have played a big part in creating this traditionIt is something that I am very proud of and hope to continue with Nolobe.

格鲁伯:One of the things I like best about Interarchy is that it works so much like the Finder, e.gits list views offer hierarchy disclosure trianglesAnd in other ways — and I mean this as a deep compliment — it works like the Finder用过的to, getting certain things right that the OS X Finder never hasFor example, when I open a folder into its own window in Interarchy, the window opens in the same size and location as the last time I opened that folder.

Have either of you ever considered working on a Finder alternative? Something that leverages the UI architecture of Interarchy but for local file browsing — more or less a competitor to Path Finder?

刘易斯:不是,不是Going head to head with Apple on what amounts to a straight user interface does not strike me as a good ideaWho knows when Apple might decide it is time for a major change in direction for the Finder, so after a lot of work it would be very easy to be left behind in the dust if Apple ever got seriousIt would not surprise me to see a big change in the Finder experience for 10.5.

格鲁伯:嗯,恭喜I’m sure this has been an exciting day for both of you.

Matthew, if you accept as many of my feature requests as Peter did, I’m sure Nolobe is going to do just fine.